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This was before, several hours earlier. Anonymous Is Losing Its War Against Israel Israel's hospitals continue to treat Gazan patients Jordan in the dark over Egyptian gas cut Protesters in Jordan capital call for King to quit

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3 comments

1 Samson  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 6:09:05pm

Israel has been bombarded by more than 60 rockets over the past few days since the initial terror attack in which several individuals, mostly civilians, were murdered. I don’t know of any country in the world, in fact, any country in history, that would not consider such attacks acts of war that deserve an appropriate response.

What is an appropriate response? I will remind everyone that when Britain was bombarded with V1 and V2 rockets from Nazi Germany during WWII, the British did not limit their response to something “proportionate”. No, the goal was to completely destroy Germany’s ability to wage aggressive war against Britain and the allies. The British (and Americans) were willing to do whatever to took to defeat Nazi Germany once and for all. This included the firebombing of Dresden and many other acts that would easily meet the modern definition of war crimes.

And let’s not forget about America’s response to Imperial Japan, the only time in history when nuclear weapons were used for military purposes.

I’m not suggesting that Israel intentionally target civilians as America and Britain did during WWII - or as Hamas and its associates are doing right now - or that Israel use weapons of mass destruction. I am, however, asking why Israel should not take whatever action is necessary to completely destroy the ability of the Hamas regime in Gaza to allow or to actively participate in terrorist acts within the state of Israel. In particular, I am wondering why Israel should tolerate even one more missile launched toward its people, and really, whether any government in the world would be expected to allow such a state of affairs to continue for even one more day.

Collective punishment? What about collective responsibility? The Hamas government was supposedly elected - democratically - to represent the people of Gaza. Whether they truly reflect the opinions of the average Gazan or not is largely irrelevant at this point - they rule Gaza and are ultimately responsible for what happens there. They can claim that the missiles and terror attacks are not really their fault or responsibility (which they are), but if that is the case (which it is not) they are not in control (which they are) and the various terrorist groups that operate within their domain need to be defeated anyway.

Yes, I know this is the middle east, which seems to operate on some kind of crazy and illogical set of rules that allow Israel’s enemies to attack and lose again and again with no negative consequences. And, of course, there is always the risk to Israel and the region in general of the unintended consequences of any military action. War is murder, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. But we are still human beings, and the need to defend oneself remains universally accepted.

Lastly, for those who will resort to the argument that the justification for the terrorism and rocket attacks is Israel’s cruel mistreatment of the Palestinians in Gaza - which I would dispute - I will merely remind you that Hamas has no interest in peaceful coexistence or negotiations and remains committed to the destruction of Israel. It’s in their charter, which is there for all the world to see.

So, to recap, Gaza is ruled by a “democratically elected” Hamas government which is committed to Israel’s destruction and has launched (or at very least, permitted) a series of terror attacks and missiles aimed at Israel’s civilian population. Why should Israel’s military not use every means possible to stop them and prevent further attacks?

2 Bob Levin  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 11:52:34pm

re: #1 Samson

I think that Israel is doing all that it can do to prevent the attacks. The problem is that the tyrannical culture of both Gaza and the West Bank make it impossible to tell the difference between a person who is a murderer and one who is willing to live in respectful peace with Israel.

There are certainly Gazans and residents of the West Bank who can indeed live in peace (when we met them, they called themselves Jordanians). But they’ve got to keep very quiet for their survival.

The international community, however, the enlightened international community, encourages the cultures in Gaza and the West Bank that mirror Nazi Germany in every way. We know why, and it comes down to oil. Presently, in this world, there is an agreed upon price for Jewish life, which is slightly less than the going price of a barrel of oil.

Yet, this is not simply a Jewish problem, or an Israeli problem, because the history of the world is amply decorated with goods made from raw material gathered at the expense of human life. It just comes into clear focus when we talk about Israel.

And so Israel presses on with a sophisticated network of intelligence gathering, and research into medical advances and energy advances. Not to mention agricultural advances and doing everything possible to use water as efficiently as possible.

In my usual minority of one perspective, I also think that we need to make significant religious advances.

In other words, doing this job properly requires quite a bit more than the IDF.

3 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 22, 2011 6:30:46am

re: #1 Samson

Israel has been bombarded by more than 60 rockets over the past few days since the initial terror attack in which several individuals, mostly civilians, were murdered. I don’t know of any country in the world, in fact, any country in history, that would not consider such attacks acts of war that deserve an appropriate response.

What is an appropriate response? I will remind everyone that when Britain was bombarded with V1 and V2 rockets from Nazi Germany during WWII, the British did not limit their response to something “proportionate”. No, the goal was to completely destroy Germany’s ability to wage aggressive war against Britain and the allies. The British (and Americans) were willing to do whatever to took to defeat Nazi Germany once and for all. This included the firebombing of Dresden and many other acts that would easily meet the modern definition of war crimes.

And let’s not forget about America’s response to Imperial Japan, the only time in history when nuclear weapons were used for military purposes.

I’m not suggesting that Israel intentionally target civilians as America and Britain did during WWII - or as Hamas and its associates are doing right now - or that Israel use weapons of mass destruction. I am, however, asking why Israel should not take whatever action is necessary to completely destroy the ability of the Hamas regime in Gaza to allow or to actively participate in terrorist acts within the state of Israel. In particular, I am wondering why Israel should tolerate even one more missile launched toward its people, and really, whether any government in the world would be expected to allow such a state of affairs to continue for even one more day.

Collective punishment? What about collective responsibility? The Hamas government was supposedly elected - democratically - to represent the people of Gaza. Whether they truly reflect the opinions of the average Gazan or not is largely irrelevant at this point - they rule Gaza and are ultimately responsible for what happens there. They can claim that the missiles and terror attacks are not really their fault or responsibility (which they are), but if that is the case (which it is not) they are not in control (which they are) and the various terrorist groups that operate within their domain need to be defeated anyway.

Yes, I know this is the middle east, which seems to operate on some kind of crazy and illogical set of rules that allow Israel’s enemies to attack and lose again and again with no negative consequences. And, of course, there is always the risk to Israel and the region in general of the unintended consequences of any military action. War is murder, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. But we are still human beings, and the need to defend oneself remains universally accepted.

Lastly, for those who will resort to the argument that the justification for the terrorism and rocket attacks is Israel’s cruel mistreatment of the Palestinians in Gaza - which I would dispute - I will merely remind you that Hamas has no interest in peaceful coexistence or negotiations and remains committed to the destruction of Israel. It’s in their charter, which is there for all the world to see.

So, to recap, Gaza is ruled by a “democratically elected” Hamas government which is committed to Israel’s destruction and has launched (or at very least, permitted) a series of terror attacks and missiles aimed at Israel’s civilian population. Why should Israel’s military not use every means possible to stop them and prevent further attacks?

Requoted for truth and an excellent post.


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